| Михаил Елашкин - imhoelashkin.com 26 Aug 2004 10:00 PM |
Я думаю, что надо поступать проще. Не развивать ненужные технологии, а просто убивать спамеров. Гораздо эффективнее и дешевле. |
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| cnst 26 Aug 2004 10:40 PM |
Точно - не порождать разум, а наоборот :-)! |
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| Serge 27 Aug 2004 11:45 AM |
Я думаяю, что проблема высосана из пальца. Нужно поменять протокол SMTP на новый протокол с предварительной аутентификацией корреспондентов, как уже давно прописано в стандартах X.500 и X.400. Удивительно, почему никто еще не сделал новую электронную почту и службу каталога... Просто отторепь берет. Может самим заняться? |
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| Sergey 27 Aug 2004 1:31 PM |
Господин Гудвинс не учитывает одного элементарного факта, а именно... Каждый раз, получая письмо, я не анализирую его с помощью преобразований Лагранжа или т.п., а смотрю, насколько это письмо соотносится с МОИМИ потребностями, пожеланиями и деятельностью. Мне в почтовый ящик каждый день валится поток совершенно связанных (в литературном смысле) писем, в которых мне подается информация о стройматериалах, конференциях, курсах или еще чего-нибудь. И только я один могу понять, что из всего этого потока есть спам. Я как-то помогал другу восстановить доступ к почтовому ящику. Есссесно, он туда долгое время не заглядывал. Когда доступ был восстановлен, начала валиться почта. Я ему сказал, как много спама он получает, на что мне было сказано - это не спам, а нужные ему материалы. Ooooops. Это доказывает тот факт, что никакой искусственный интелект не поможет в решении проблемы спама на 100% - а значит, следуя г-ну Гудвинсу, это тоже выброшенные деньги. И здесь я полностью согласен с тезкой насчет усовершенствования или смены протоколов - это много дешевле, много проще и много еффективнее.
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| Петя 27 Aug 2004 4:16 PM |
Не всё так просто на первый взгляд. Спам это не только потерянные, но и заработанные деньги. И пока это так противится его полному устранению будут как спамеры, так и те кто с ним отчаянно борется. Смена протокола - отличное решение, но проблема в том, что нужно будет обновить ВСЕ серверы, ВСЕ клиенты, причём на какое-то время (весьма неопределенное) с поддержкой обеих протоколов. Такое гигантское перелопачивание почти равносильно переходу на 64-bit процессоры. Так что насчет эффективности я не спорю, а вот насчет дешевле и проще это бабушка надвое сказала. |
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| Serge 27 Aug 2004 5:56 PM |
2Петя: Естественно старая система c SMTP будет работать параллельно с новой. Просто появится еще одно приложение - новая почта. Что касается заработков денег на спаме - т.е. рекламы, то выход тоже очень простой: нужно в новой почте иметь специальную папку для спама. Хочет пользователь - принимает спам в эту папку, не хочет - не принимает. Но за каждое письмо рекламодатель должен платить не спамеру, как сейчас (и делать это полулегально), а прямо пользователю. Более того, каждый пользователь может указать, какой спам ему желательно получать. (и за чтение какого мусора он согласен получать деньги). И спамеры станут вполне легальными и солидными поставщиками сервиса рассылки прямой рекламы. Все будут довольны и рекламодатели и пользователи и спамеры. И не будет в сети бесполезного трафика, который все равно почти никто не читает. Почему этого никто не сделает? (Только зачем я это все рассказываю? Надо молчать и давно пора начать писать концепцию проекта и код... Короче, молчу. Теперь больше ни слова.)
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| Пройдаков - chiefpcweek.ru 27 Aug 2004 7:16 PM |
Не могу согласиться с фразой об умирающем ИИ. Все ровно наоборот - идет его третья волна, хотя до девятого вала еще далеко. Что касается спама, то методологическая ошибка -- бороться со спамом в каждой точке его получения. Если давить спам в точке отправки (что на порядки эффективней), то спамеры будут вынуждены сначала выявлять заинтересантов и исчезнет съедающая трафик массовость рассылки.
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| Ranger 30 Aug 2004 7:15 AM |
Да просто надо ввести оплату исходящего SMTP трафика и спамеры сами вымрут аки мамонты :) |
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| Tester881 30 Aug 2004 8:13 AM |
2Ranger: Разумно.... |
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| Geek 30 Aug 2004 4:31 PM |
30 августа, 2004, 7:15 - Ranger > Да просто надо ввести оплату исходящего SMTP трафика и > спамеры сами вымрут аки мамонты :) В штатах, несмотря на стоимость бумаги, почты, типографии, обычные почтовые ящики забиваются по завязку рекламой типа "Посетите наш гастроном где по вторникам говядина дешевле на 39 центов за фунт!". Почтальоны пихают этот мусор в ящики изо всех сил, адресован он, типа, "нашим дорогим соседям", а сделать ничего нельзя - потому что за доставку этого говна честно уплачено. Нет, чтобы резать спам нужно вводить идентификацию провайдерских почтовых серверов, и блэклистить по-черному всех провайдеров, которые не желают держать своих клиентов в рамках приличий. Вот тогда провайдеры забегают и весь спам закончится самое большее через полгода.
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| DemonZla 30 Aug 2004 4:32 PM |
2Ranger Накуй накуй!!! Мало того что инет платный так ещё блин за почту платить... А вобще так надо давить тех кто спамерам задания даёт... то есть фирмы которые пользуются такими способами рекламы... Не будет заказов - не будет и спамеров... |
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| Vovchik - aabb.ru 31 Aug 2004 12:35 PM |
Спамеры конечно негодяи, но объясните мне пожалуйста, где они берут адреса для рассылки? |
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| Alexandr Sil 31 Aug 2004 4:00 PM |
Мне эта статья напоминает давно известный факт, как американцы изобретали ручку, которой можно писать в невесомости, в то время, как наши космонавты пользовались карандашами. Сейчас идет переход на IP v6. И почему добавление параллельно нового протокола, подобного SMTP будет трудно внедрить. Вообще-то я бы ввел в фильтр такую возможность- что почту можно получать только из белого списка е-майлов и те, которые в теме кроме самой теме содержат кодовое слово(для новых адресатов, чтобы потом ввести их в белый список) какое-нибудь типа "ехалгрекачерезрекувидитгрекаврекерожу". Через неделю меняю кодовое слово. можно после получения первого письма со спамом поменять кодовое слово. А своим контрагентам говоришь кодовое слово, чтобы письмо пришло в почтовый ящик. |
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| vIv 1 Sep 2004 8:14 PM |
Alexandr Sil www.spamgourmet.com - оно и есть |
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| ZhuySam 2 Sep 2004 10:05 AM |
Чё на спамеров наезжать. Спамеры обеспечивают работой и себя и тех кто с ними борется. А письма, которые они рассылают являются образцами копирайта. Я иногда так и делаю. Сдираю текст, заменяю названия фирм и цифры и в Объявления. Работает эффективно. |
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| Black xxx 28 Dec 2004 11:29 AM |
люди да какие проблемы вообще??? вас не раздражает рекалма на TV? вас не раздражает бумажечки в почтвом ящике.. думаю раздражает. но это не поводо что бы.... и вообщем меня куда больше разрадает СПАМ ОТ МОЕГО БАНКА КОТОРЫй кажды меся присылает... хотя я сам винватс но почему я не получается от него отказаться.( все равно что присылают ГАДЫ). потому что от этого спама я могу РЕЛАMНО пострадать. если эта бумажка попадет в чужие руки.. а вообщем бороться с спамареми нужно рыночными методами. почму он не просто существует а столкьо маштабен потому что пользуется СПРОСом.. а почему пользуется спросом потому что НЕТ никакаяю реально альтернативы.. ДЕШЕВОЙ целейвой рекламно расклке. НО ЛЕГАЛЬНОй.. а ВСЕ законы проти спама только усложнюят возможность созадения такой ситемы.... те мы пятаемся уложняить им работу. а надо просто создать конурента.. напрер система в котряо можно зарегтрироваться и сказать что вы вы сейчас хотите.. типа оисковой системы.. и ВАМ пришлют расслыку по этому поводу УЖЕ ОТОБРАНУЮ.. те рекламодатель заплатит меньше чем даже спамеру.. нет есть походие системы расслыки но они носят чатсный характеры и а НЕ ЯВЛЯЕЮТСЯ системой. |
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ZhuySam нарокоторговый тоже обеспецивают работо себя и оргна броьбы с наркотиками. только почему то эти оргнаы сокере борятся с ветеринарами а бабушками с МАКОМ. |
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